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Obscure hymn
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Andrew Butler
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Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject: Obscure hymn Reply with quote

Can anyone suggest where the tune to the following may be found p[lease?

http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/o/o098.html
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diapason8



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 365
Location: West Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andrew,

The tune is Double Common Metre (DCM). My hymn book (Hymns Old & New) has - as examples -

Forest Green (O Little town of Bethlehem), Kingsfold & Vox Dilecta (I heard the voice of Jesus say), Noel (It came upon the midnight clear), St Matthew (Thine arm, O Lord, in days of old) and Tyrol (A man there lived in Galilee).

There will be others in other hymn books.

I would think, from that selection, that Kingsfold, as a tune originallly set to a ballad, would be suitable.

Good luck,

Nigel
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Jason Evans



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

St. Asaph (supposedly by Giovanni Giornovichi) would fit these words well also, though I think Nigel's suggestion of Kingsfold is best.

Cheers
Jason
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Andrew Butler
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry - I posted this question in a hurry and didn't express myself well. Thanks for the replies, but everyone has understandably taken my question at face value!

If it was a hymn I wanted to use, I have nearly 40 years experience, and am fully au-fait with hymn metres.

The situation is, that I have had a request from an elderly gentleman who remembers a recording of a boy treble singing the words in a recording from the 1930's, and he would like to get hold of the words and music.
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diapason8



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: West Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew,

I have searched through my many hymnals which include Anglican, RC, Methodist, Congregational, Episcopalian & AUstralian, to no avail. The Oremus entry quotes the tune 'David' but I've never heard of it. The words read as though the come from a children's hymnal, and the remembrance of your enquirer from a recording in the 30's perhaps indicated that it's from a Victorian collection - perhaps a Sankey hymn? I'll post a query on an American forum which I frequent occasionally and let you know if I have aresult.

Regards,

Nigel
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Jason Evans



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew,

I suspected that's where your question was heading, but when Nigel hopped in with tune suggestions I couldn't help but throw in one myself.

(Nigel, what American forum are you going to consult?)

Anyway, 40 years experience in church music? You must have some real dandy tales. Laughing

Cheers,
Jason
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diapason8



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning, Gentlemen,

I though you'd ask that, Jason. The Organ Forum has a few UK members, and Lance posts there too, but it is very US orientated. You can find it on

www.bargainsail.co./forums/

I've had no replies as yet to the 'David' tune question.

Nigel
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eagles



Joined: 23 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've looked amongst the oddball ones I have too. No luck.

Richard in Oz.
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diapason8



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing from The Orgsan Forum either.

Sorry,

Nigel
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lancecornea



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Butler wrote:


The situation is, that I have had a request from an elderly gentleman who remembers a recording of a boy treble singing the words in a recording from the 1930's, and he would like to get hold of the words and music.


Might the boy soprano be Ernst Lough? He recorded Hear My Prayer in 1927 but his voice broke in 1928. However any recordings he may have made would still be played during the 30's. I know there are compilation recordings of much of his repertoire now becoming available, and I do remember reading in Organists' Review of some cd's of other famous trebles from the past (not you, Tom! Laughing ) Trouble is, I would have to read through all the journals to find it!
Perhaps googling Ernest Lough repertoire might help locate the piece.

Lance
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Springs



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason I am unable to link to the Oremus site. I do not know yet what this hymn is. Can someone give me the first line?

The reason I ask is that I have a largish collection of relevant 78s, about 675 in all, and might have the recording mentioned.

Springs
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lancecornea



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the Forum, Springs! Very Happy

Here's the first verse of the hymn:

O, David was a shepherd lad,
and guarded well the sheep;
by night and day, good times or bad,
his watch he used to keep.
But David's less than David's Son,
though a Shepherd too is he;
through all the world his pastures run,
and of his flock are we.


Your 78's may prove to be a likely source. Does your collection also include The Anthology of English Church Music?

Cheers

Lance
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lancecornea



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to say that the words are written by Charles Erskine Clarke, 1925

Lance
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Springs



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for those words Lance.
Real poetry, then?

I have checked a few more likely hymnbooks: Golden Hymnal, Sankey's Sacred Songs and Solos, Scripture Union Choruses, for example. It is not in any of them. I do find it fascinating to note, however, the relative number of hymns which begin with the word "O" and "Oh,".

Golden: O = 59 and Oh, = 0
Sankey: O = 12 and Oh, = 31
S.U. O = 2 and Oh, = 26

I also searched for: "David was a shepherd . . ." - just in case.

My goodness this is a fertile land. Look at these. Most came from the States. The reason I include them is to demonstrate that there may well be, among the authors, a memory of happy Sunday School singing which inspired these works of art.

A.
David was a shepherd lad,
The youngest of eight boys.
He played a small harp with his hand
And made a joyful noise.
A ruddy, handsome youth
Who made the women dance and sing,
A brave and valiant warrior
And destined to be king.

B.
David was a shepherd lad, a fearless little chap
Along came Goliath, just a looking for a scrap
David hadn't any sword, he used a sling instead
He slung rocks at Goliath and the giant fell down dead


C.
When David was a shepherd boy
He loved to tend his sheep,
They fed on grass and luscious herbs,
And drank of waters deep.
And often while he watched the sheep
He sang neath starry sky,
The Lord's my shepherd I'll not want,
He makes me down to lie.

D.
David was a shepherd boy,
By nature cool and calm.
A talented musician
And a wizard with a psalm.
For a shepherd hasn't much to do
But pluck his lyre and sing.
But deep inside, the kid was tough.
A scrappy youth who had the stuff
To be a future king.

E.
David was a shepherd boy
A plucky little cuss
Along came goliath a-looking for a fuss, etc

F.
David was a shepherd boy who looked after sheep (make sheep sounds) . . . . enough!


I am not sure whether a couple of line back there should be looked upon as homage or plagiarism.

B. by the way, comes from a scout song, sung in Utah - one which has 33 verses!

Perhaps we should direct our enquiries to someone with a clutch of American Sunday school hymnals, likewise 78 rpm records.
Most of my 78s are English and, alas (or Oh, joy!), do not include this one.

Yes I do have all but a couple of the "Anthology". Martin Monkman of Amphion Records has the lot and would like, sometime, to reissue the set.
Brave man!

While on the subject of obscure hymns, I have on my desk one of the most obscure. It comes from the Musical Salvationist Vol LXII
part IV, July-August 1958. The words begin:
"Unto the hills around do I lift up my longing eyes"
The tune is called "Wadhurst". It is in A flat and the melody reaches G flat twice. It was written by Michael Tippett in optimistic mood, his only hymn.

Springs
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lancecornea



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaaaaaagggggghhhhhhhh! Some of that poetry is enough to make you puke Rolling Eyes

Perhaps this hymn is better not rediscovered

Springs wrote:


Yes I do have all but a couple of the "Anthology". Martin Monkman of Amphion Records has the lot and would like, sometime, to reissue the set.
Brave man!


So if he has the whole set, what's stopping him from releasing them Question
I wonder whether he also has The Treasury of English Church Music, released by HMV around 1965. I have the five volumes of books but I'd love to get the LP's (or re-issued CD's) of them all.

Lance
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