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Hymn Keys

 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:25 pm    Post subject: Hymn Keys Reply with quote

I am always amazed at the high keys in which the typical hymns and carols sung at weddings, funerals and Christmas. This conspires against the proper participation of most of those in the congregation - including many with good voices.

I can understand why this is the case, but not why those responsible for publishing hymn and carol books do not do something about it. The worst offender is the OUP Carols for Choirs books which have audience carols set for Kings College Chapel voices.

Few organists are able to transpose confidently and in any case may well feel that they should adhere to the composers' intentions come what may.

Is there any move afoot to do something about this, or am I a lone voice in the wilderness?

Cheers

Edwin Smith
PS I am a very experienced choral singer (LSC etc) with a very wide range (bottom B flat to top G), but still find this annoying.
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Mac Lynch



Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 3
Location: Bombay New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:22 pm    Post subject: Hymn Keys Reply with quote

Kia Ora Edwin
I don't think you are a voice in the wilderness, I have before me, an Edition of A & M printed some time after 1940 that has all the hymns transposed to a lower key, so your attitude must have been recognised at least since then. At least with the electronic age, changing the key can be as simple as pressing a button.
Another, longer winded possibility, is transcribing the music to a program like CAKEWALK where again transposition is simply a matter of a few keystrokes. The Transposed version can be printed out.
Of course unless catered for by a clever software program these transpositions can sound a little strange if the TEMPER is not altered.
This could be quite a subject for discussion.
Mac
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marknw



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 12
Location: Northumberland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:38 pm    Post subject: transposition Reply with quote

Noteworthy Composer also has a transposition facility - and a free trial version can be downloaded - perfectly adequate for simple transposition
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eagles



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for sing-along transposing of tape or CD tracks, I can thoroughly recommend the open-source audio editor called Audacity which I have used a lot both as a general editor, a digitiser, and for this specific job.

Windows, Linux, and Unix (via a Linux layer thingy) versions, all absolutely free of financial cost.
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diapason8



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 365
Location: West Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audacity is good: I've used it for editing live recordings for broadcast on a community radio station. It's straightforward to use and the results are OK. You need to download the 'Lame' software to save your files in MP3 format.

And welcome to the forum, Eagles. You're very welcome.

Regards,

Nigel
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eagles



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diapason8 wrote:
Audacity is good: I've used it for editing live recordings for broadcast on a community radio station. It's straightforward to use and the results are OK. You need to download the 'Lame' software to save your files in MP3 format.

To illustrate this concept, let me link to two mp3s I have online, created by me from the same source.

First the original recording, and second a transposition downwards (two semitones, Audacity allows you to specifiy how much) to fit my own vocal range, to rehearse with, in presenting a specific song as a solo to lead into communion.

This is one of Sir John Stainer's compositions.

The work was recorded (my me) back in the 1970s, before affordable multi-track recorders; everything being mixed directly to open reel, with no room for mistakes like too high levels which cause distortion. I love the Baritone singer (scored for Bass actually)

Edited: links changed
http://eagles-lair.org/mp3/Stainer_Crucifixion/gsltw_transposed-2.mp3

This is the original recording, at the correct pitch.

This is the transposed version, the tempo still being held the same, and therefore the duration of the recording is close to identical.

Okay, any further transposition, some strange results may be observed depending on the nature of the recording. There are many different effects which can be used to mask deficiencies. It is truly a great application.

diapason8 wrote:
And welcome to the forum, Eagles. You're very welcome.
Regards,
Nigel

Love that screen name, Nigel, and thankyou for the welcome; I was absolutely delighted to find the forum, and after a bad start with the software thinking I was under 13, finally made it Very Happy

I found the forums using google, searching for Sir John Stainer by his surname.
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Last edited by eagles on Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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diapason8



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 365
Location: West Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eagles,

I've not been able to get the files to download yet - maybe my PC or perhaps me! Maybe some of the youngsters of the forum will have more success - I'll try again later. I've also got hold od a copy of Cool Edit Pro to try out.

I used an ancient ex-BBC Uher reel-to-reel last year for some broadcast work - it worked fine, but I had a problem in getting decent (not worn out) tapes. I've recently got hold of a minidisk which seems good quality.

You may have seen on the 'Waffle' thread a discussion about recording the organ, and a qurestion from Rob Charles. You're probably better qualified than me to advise him.

Regards,

Nigel
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eagles



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The word "This" in both instances is what you click on for the link.

A regular "click" should launch the file into your mp3 player, whatever it is. I use RealPlayer myself, but there are many to choose from these days, including the Windows Media Player.

If you right click on the word "This" a little menu pops up, and you should pick "Save Target As" (Internet Explorer) or "Save Link As" (Firefox) or something similar in your web browser.

It may well ask you where to save it (usually desktop), click "yes" and it should all work.

If all else fails try the link to the directory http://eagles-lair.dyndns.org/mp3/stainer_crucifixion and pick either of the mp3 files from the directory listing that you should see Smile

Hope that helps Smile
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eagles



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diapason8 wrote:
I've not been able to get the files to download yet - maybe my PC or perhaps me! Maybe some of the youngsters of the forum will have more success - I'll try again later.

Wondering how you went?

I'm spoiled, being on not just Broadband but ADSL-2+ which gives me a very fast upload and a faster download speed.

Email of course also works, as does an Instant Messager thingy like Yahoo or ICQ.

Richard in Oztralia
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