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admin Site Admin
Joined: 21 Mar 2002 Posts: 51
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: All Things Bright and Beautiful - the lost verse |
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I suspect it is just modern political thought - the implication that as God has made one high or lowly that is where one should stay is uncomfortable in this age of meritocracy. The words can be found here:
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/a/l/allthing.htm
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I am trying to find some information about a change in the lyrics to All Things Bright and Beautiful. In old hymn books, it contains the verse beginning with "The rich man in his castle", but this verse is missing from more recent versions. Do you know why this is the case? Or, can you help me find out? Its just a mystery that I find interesting.
Thanks very much.
God Bless,
Allan Wade
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lancecornea
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 526 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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This is what the Australian Hymn Book "Together in Song" does to the verses of that hymn to make it relevant to Aussies:
The wildflowers in their beauty,
the mountain ranges tall,
the billabongs and rivers,
and friendly birds that call
Refrain
The coloured walls of gorges.
the gum trees green and tall,
the rocks, the pools, the palm trees,
the sparkling waterfall
Refrain
The many coloured corals,
the creatures of the sea,
of bushland, field or desert,
on farms, or roaming free
Refrain
It makes me want to throw up, although friendly birds giving me a call would be quite acceptable
Lance _________________ The older I get, the better I was. |
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Jason Evans
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 535
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:46 am Post subject: Re: All Things Bright and Beautiful - the lost verse |
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admin wrote: |
I suspect it is just modern political thought...
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Or modern
progressive
thought? Perhaps it's my generation or the fact that I'm half-American, but I find that verse utterly disgraceful in the extreme. What a helluva condescending piece of tripe that verse is. To borrow a Gilbertian phrase: "they'd none of 'em be missed."
One could politely ask Mr. Allan Wade: just what were you fishing for in your inquiry? I would have thought the answer to that obvious, but perhaps an admission instead that
NEH
is a retrograde step? Jeez, it is no wonder The Church of England is seen by so many to be hopelessly irrelevant.  |
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Andrew Butler Resigned
Joined: 09 May 2006 Posts: 145
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Another verse I have seen (many years ago)
And all the dogs and horses,
the friendly cows and sheep;
God gave us all his flowers
and animals to keep
Oh, and has anyone heard the version on the SciFi channel advert? |
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diapason8
Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 365 Location: West Somerset, UK
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Have you seen the 'amended', politically correct, version of the 'rich man' verse:
The poor man in his castle,
the rich man at the gate.
The charge is seven and sixpence
to look round the estate.
N _________________ Advena ego sum in Terra |
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admin Site Admin
Joined: 21 Mar 2002 Posts: 51
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: All Things Bright and Beautiful - the lost verse |
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Jason Evans wrote: |
admin wrote: |
I suspect it is just modern political thought...
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Or modern
progressive
thought? Perhaps it's my generation or the fact that I'm half-American, but I find that verse utterly disgraceful in the extreme. What a helluva condescending piece of tripe that verse is.
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But in the context of the time it was written entirely reasonable..? In some circles (not mine!) it is also considered that everything one does is pre-ordained, in which case "He made them, high or lowly, and ordered their estate" is a theological statement. And "ordered their estate" is presumably not a fixed order and leaves room for change - "up" or "down"?
I didn't think that verse was in
any
modern hymnal (ie: since about 1930) - I'd be amazed if it was in NEH (1986).
John. |
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Jason Evans
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 535
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: Re: All Things Bright and Beautiful - the lost verse |
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admin wrote: |
I didn't think that verse was in
any
modern hymnal (ie: since about 1930) - I'd be amazed if it was in NEH (1986).
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My original post implied that this silly verse is
not
in NEH. And it isn't.
However, I still wish that the original perpetrator of that utterly naive question might come forth and just tell us: what kind of answer were you asking for? Maybe he thought this forum was comprised of elderly, blind Anglicans. But this youngster, at least, found it all so utterly shabby.
Where are you, wickedchorister and Tom? You can dress the background theology up as much as you wish, but you can't take it out anymore. |
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admin Site Admin
Joined: 21 Mar 2002 Posts: 51
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: Re: All Things Bright and Beautiful - the lost verse |
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Jason Evans wrote: |
You can dress the background theology up as much as you wish, but you can't take it out anymore.
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Indeed  |
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diapason8
Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 365 Location: West Somerset, UK
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
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I must agree with admin, that, whilst to us in the 21st century (even to elderly anglicans like me) this verse seems patronising in the extreme; it was, in it's time, accepted as the norm. Remember, Mrs Alexander lived from 1818 to 1895. In 1831, only 4,500
men
, out of a population of more than 2.6 million people, were entitled to vote in parliamentary elections. The'Great' Reform Act of 1832 gave the vote in towns only to men who occupied property with an annual value of £10, which excluded six adult males out of seven and all women, from the voting process. So, when Mrs Alexander wrote that verse, she was simply reflecting the political realities of her time. Many other Victorian hymns contain theology which we would now question, just as the Victorian hymn writers were questioning earlier theologies. Doubtless, fifty years hence,many will be questioning the theologies expressed in the hymns of, say, Fred Pratt-Green, John Bell and Graham Kendrick. . Eliot commented that ‘The church must be forever building, for it is forever decaying within and attacked from without ………… Much to cast down, much to build, much to restore ;Let the work not delay, time and the arm not waste’. So, and as we're discussing hymnody I make no apology for quoting yet another Victorian, Henry Francis Lyte, "change and decay in all around I see". But, I must ask the question, is all change, always, synonymous with decay? And again, to really throw the cat amongst the pigeons, should we be changing the words of hymns, simply because we feel that `social circumstances, the meanings of words or theological ideologies have changes since they were written. What right do we have to change someone else's poetry? And will the PC brigade start altering Shakespeare next?
Nigel _________________ Advena ego sum in Terra |
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Jason Evans
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 535
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Nigel,
Thanks for your comments (from the elder statesman on the board?... just kidding ) and input. Yet I question the relevance of Shakespeare in this discussion. Shakespeare's writings transcend their time and -to me, at least- have little to do with Elizabethan/Jacobean theologies as related to worship in the church. Alexander's poem, on the other hand, is stuck in its time and was intended for church worship with little regard for future values.
Why not change it? It's no masterpiece, and I would hate for some unsuspecting soul to stumble into an Anglican service where this is sung and wonder what we've all been smoking.
This is not to say that I favour changing words indiscriminately just because they aren't PC. There was a fuss some years back over Simon Rattle's recording of
Show Boat
because the original words to
Old Man River
, "Colored folks on the Mississippi..." were not changed to accomodate modern taste.
Show Boat
is a masterpiece very much reflecting its time; it is not a hymn to be sung in a house of God. |
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diapason8
Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 365 Location: West Somerset, UK
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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I mentioned Shakespeare to highlight that nothing seems to be 'sacred' (ie too
valuable
) to be changed - and usually dumbed-down -by the rampaging PC brigade. All things b&b is hardly a 'highbrow' text, but, it is relevant as a product of its time. I worked briefly for a priest who refused to allow many well-loved hymns to be sung because, in his words, "people these days won't understand them". Surely, the answer is, to spend a minute explaining the words and the context in which they were written, rather than to ban or change them. 30 seconds spent in explaining to a congregation the political situation when the 'rich man' verse was written will allow the hymn to be sung, as the motto of the RSCM says, "with the spirit, and with the understanding also".
N _________________ Advena ego sum in Terra |
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