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What is it with Churches these days?

 
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RobCharles



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Swansea, South Wales, Uk

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject: What is it with Churches these days? Reply with quote

http://www.churchmusic.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=132

I'm refering with the thread I had going - What is it with churches these days? Why do they think they know everything about organs when they don't

I'm not sure if you lot play Electronic Organs would you always have seperate speakers for the more important events or if it was a good turnout on a Normal Sunday service?

Your thoughts most welcome

Rob
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RobCharles



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Swansea, South Wales, Uk

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well can anyone put an answer to this then ???
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lancecornea



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 526
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rob
I gather from your other thread that you had a 6 page document that you could deliver to your church council on the benefits of external speakers for larger congregations, and also your plan for raising the money. Have you in fact gone through all this with them........it would seem from your comments in this particular thread that you received the big "Thanks, but No Thanks!" Am I correct?
Hell, at my parish church, I kept plugging away at the Vestry week by week, month by month,and was finally able to convince them (a) that the church needed to replace the old Harmonium with a Pipe Organ and that (b) the Organ Fund as we called ourselves would raise the money to do so. And we did! And now have a lovely 2 manual pipe organ, complete with 16,8,and 4 ft reeds.
They thought they knew it all at the time (that the Harmonium was adequate) but we had our vision and kept working towards it.
Do you have other members of the choir or congregation who might be able to offer help in fund-raising. A good way to start is to see whether there is enough interest amongst your "allies" to raise the capital by each offering an interest free loan as we did. We also found that after the organ was installed, a lot of those who had lent money towards the fund were so impressed by the outcome that they gifted what we still owed them to the organ. It's amazing what some people who are passionate about their church music will do sometimes!
Hope this helps!

Lance
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RobCharles



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Swansea, South Wales, Uk

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ian

Thanks for your response

This is the Church I'm talking about:

http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2110007lh6.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2110009al4.jpg

What I'm thinking with the Church, they probably have a lot to think about amongst other things I feel, It had been discused twice and failed, cause it might "Drown Them Out" the first time by myself (I had nothing prepared) and the Church council walked all over me like a carpet, the Second occation was helped by another organ fanatic of mine who comes to my CHurch who tried, but they didnt seem interested - But I don't know why? But its the people who reject to this - who don't know what an organ is or what its tenicalitys are.

So I thought the next step now was to get something prepared on this, and I have convinced myself this could work, I want to do some fundraising for example Organ Recitals and a Songs of Praises event, I know for a fact that they arnt a ritch church but they do get by,

But for External Speakers I don't want to do this for loudness, this is my intention - sposing there were very few numbers yeah? I would use the internal speakers on reduced volume, but if there was a lot more coming to Church or on the "Imprtant Church Events" thats when they could be needed I could then use the externals on Less Volume to hear the congregation singing, right now its quite daft as I have all the sound directly at me as you can see from the organ pic.

Hope you follow me! Rolling Eyes

Rob
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lancecornea



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 526
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your church quite obviously is very small, and as such, the parish council would believe the present instrument to be adequate to fill the space. A full church would only be about 45 people, based on 3 per pew. They must sing well to drown you out!
Where would you envisage putting the external speakers? I think I read in your other thread that churches need to have these sort of "additions" pretty well concealed from view, and judging by the photo, there's nowhere at the back of the church to put them.
You need to convince them that more speakers doesn't necessarily translate into more volume, and that you can place the speakers in a non-intrusive location.
Just for the exercise, can't you hire, for a weekend, additional speakers which I'm sure an electronics expert can identify as being compatible with the instrument, to convince your parish council to change their thinking?

Best of luck Wink

Lance
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RobCharles



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Swansea, South Wales, Uk

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lance thanks for the reply

Well I know that the Church is somewhat small in Size, but that church actualy holds 60 or at least 70 and they are like sardines! Church Councils don't obviously know about organs, my other organist who occatiionaly plays had a go after a service one Sunday, and to the door of the Church sounds ok, but the futher back you go the sound is very distant.

They Know that I play really well in Church and I respect that, this morning in Church we had approx 30 in the congregation bit of a job to keep up with them.
but can you imagine when that Church is full? Theres me trying to keep up, and the organ itself is not coping at all. But when I bring this up in a Church Council meeting I can suggest that about trying out some speakers for a few days.. The Organ is from Makin Organs www.makinorgans.co.uk.

Cheers

Rob
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RobCharles



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Swansea, South Wales, Uk

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes
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lancecornea



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 526
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was you, I'd contact Makin and see if they will let you trial speakers for a couple of services. The web site seems to suggest that the speakers they use are only suitable for organ tone and not for voice, and so borrowing or hiring from another source may not be appropriate. They have a hire option for organs, so would probably accommodate your request to try some speaker boxes.

Lance
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RobCharles



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Swansea, South Wales, Uk

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That what I will do, I will have to speak to the Church Council about it, I did contact Makin on a number of occations they said its all upto the Church Council Confused But its people like those who don't understand what an organ is, but still I will suggest that for a trial purpose only and hopefuly I will have my way I will demonstrate to my church what speakers do - Not for blasting but for a better feeling of sound.

Rob
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lancecornea



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 526
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy

Lance
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RobCharles



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Swansea, South Wales, Uk

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this Sunday ok I was the first to get into Church (the one with the Johannus) So I was having a "Practice" when one of the "Members" of Church comes in and not long has a go at me playing the organ much to loud!! I though the ckeeky begger!! He was trying to educate me and obviously hasnt got a clue on organs Claiming that "The organ *Ahem* is ment to provide backing music for Church services" Well I corrected him

"The Organ is the main feature of the Church to support the singing "

He soon walked up the aisle with the tail betwwen his legs!! Razz
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jwatkins
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Apr 2002
Posts: 90
Location: Coulsdon, Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobCharles wrote:
Claiming that "The organ *Ahem* is ment to provide backing music for Church services"

Hmmm, I'd say that is not an uncommon thought! I suspect quite a few people consider the organist to be a bit like the pianist in a bar and to be there to provide backing noise in the bits of the service where people aren't officially speaking (during Eucharist and before and after the service).
John.
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Jason Evans



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 535

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jwatkins wrote:
I suspect quite a few people consider the organist to be a bit like the pianist in a bar...

Except perhaps the pianist is better paid, particularly if it is an upscale bar?

I substituted this past Sunday and there was so much loud chatter during the closing voluntary that I can only wonder: why bother playing anything of substance? My pay is not based on the quality of music I present. It takes time to polish a closing toccata, yet all of us know there are numerous books of "easy postludes" that lend themselves to a quick run-through before the service and be done with it.
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RobCharles



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Swansea, South Wales, Uk

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So who has common sense myself or this nosey old git?? Rolling Eyes
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